Martinengo Delle Palle

[Aquila_Rosso]

Hello,

I'm sorry that I will have to write this in english or it wouldn't make much sense if I tried to write in Italian.

My family name is Martinengo. My great grandfather and his siblings were all documented as Martinengo Delle Palle.
Thier father was Fillipo Martinengo Delle Palle, born in Roma, but moved to England during the revolution of Garibaldi. His naturalisation document for England also states his name as Martinengo Delle Palle.
His grandfather moved to Rome from Torino in 1800.
We have a series of documents from the Vatican that name three generations as Nobile and mention service in the Guardia Nobile. There is also mention in those papers of the Marchese Gherado Martinengo, no mention that he was of the Colleoni branch, only that he also had come from Torino.

My great Aunt Domenica Antonia Martinengo Delle Palle was interviewed in the early 20th century by the Sydney Morning Herald and says the her family lost the Palazzo during the invasion of Napoleon and that the "Corsican" used the palazzo as a stables. She also talks about her Father's title being very old, dating from the 10th century.

There is another story that one of our ancestors left Brescia to go and fight in the Kossuth war.
My family appeared in Torino at the same time as Kossuth, but we have been unable to find any futher information.

We met Tebaldo Martinengo Cesaresco while in Brescia. He and some scholars agreed that our family is Martinengo Delle Palle, but were unable to shed any light on what Delle palle branch we would stem from.
It would be nice to know.
Does anybody here have any idea where we should go from here in order to find some answers.I can provide PDF copies of the documents to anybody who is interested.

Regards.

Andre Martinengo

[fra' Eusanio da Ocre]

Welcome in your forum, dear friend.

Surely Martinengo was one of the principal family in the country around Brescia.

And surely you have taken you nickname from the eagle of gules of their coat of arms...

Bene vale

[Marcello Fiorillo]

Hi Andre!
(surely a connection with the name Andrea, which in Italian is a male name!)

Are you writing from Australia? Can you understand Italian?
Marcello

[Aquila_Rosso]

Hi Andre!
(surely a connection with the name Andrea, which in Italian is a male name!)

Are you writing from Australia? Can you understand Italian?
Marcello

Hi ,

I am in New Zealand.
I can understand most things written on the forum in Italian, but I think it is safer to write in English for now, in case I make a mistake with my written Italian and am misinterpreted.

My great, great Grandfather Fillipo Aloyius Allesandro Martinengo Delle Palle left Italy during the revolution in the late 19th century.
He was a Professor of Music and Language and worked in England.
He had lots of children who were very good musicians and had a classical music and opera touring group named "The Brescians". That is where the family's roots are said to be, even though my family was in Torino e Roma before leaving for England.
We have a letter from the "Contessa" (Fillipo's mother) from Roma to him in England and she is saying how Roma is surrounded by Garibaldi and that she is trying to secure Pontifical permmision to get out of Rome and travel to England to see her son and grandchildren.

We have always heard as we grew up that Fillipo's father "Domenico" was Conte Martinengo and Fillipo's daughter makes reference to her father's title but we do not know what the title was. The documents we have from the Palazzo Apostolico do not mention titles, only that they are "Nobile".

If the documents we have show my family was Martinengo Delle Palle and "Nobile" then that would make my Father, myself, my Father's cousin and his son (all here in New Zealand) the very last known male members of the Martinengo Delle Palle branch and mean also that we may likely be descended from the great General Bartolomeo Colleoni.
It would indeed be nice to make all our documentation complete and to know the full story.

[Marcello Fiorillo]

Bene, Aquila.
Posso allora scriverti in italiano sicuro della tua comprensione. Saluti alla meravigliosa Nuova Zelanda!

Purtroppo sono anch'io nuovo nel Forum ed un "giovane" appassionato, tanto giovane che sto anch'io cercando fonti e conferme sui miei antenati in primo luogo.

Mi sembra che la tua storia sia reale, sicuramente all'inizio del 1800 gli ideali Rivoluzionari portati in Italia dalle focose truppe Francesi (vedi battaglia di Marengo, Giugno 1800) e l'istituzione della Repubblica Cisalpina per decreto Napoleonico nei seguenti anni, crearono un gran scompiglio, con certa fuga dei nobili locali in altri Stati.

E' storicamente altrettanto verosimile il trasloco da Brescia a Roma, che ancora godeva di liberta' aristocratica essendo protetta dal potere del Papa. L'Inghilterra era poi uno dei luoghi di fuga preferiti dai nobili di tutta Europa durante tutto il periodo Rivoluzionario e Risorgimentale.

A questo punto la conferma dovrebbe essere trovata in documenti notarili, atti di nascita e di matrimonio, sia in Inghilterra che in Italia. Uno sforzo non facile, visto che vivi in Nuova Zelanda!

Per ora ti auguro il meglio e spero di imbattermi in tracce e conferme dei Martinengo Delle Palle. Se cosi' te ne comunichero' immediatamente la sorgente.

Con vivo affetto e stima,
Ad Prospera et Vale!

[Marcello Fiorillo]

Ancora una cosa:
mi incuriosisce il tuo collegamento tra i Martinengo Delle Palle e il condottiero fiorentino Bartolomeo Colleoni. Come hai sospettato questa connessione?

[Aquila_Rosso]

Yes, I did understand most of that, but had to also use google translate to be 100% sure.

As for your question about Bartolomeo Colleoni.
He was married to Tisbe Martinengo and three of his Daughters married Martinengo husbands.
Hence we have various Martinengo Colleoni branches.
There was some debate last century as to what Martinengo branches could prove their relationship and descendancy from Colleoni.
This caused a rift between the Martinengo Dalle Palle (same as Delle Palle) and Martinengo Colleoni over who was the heir to the Colleoni titles that had passed into the Martinengo families.
The title of Marchese di Pianezza was revoked from the Dalle Palle in Torino and then given back to them by the Austrian State in Venezia after a court case.
So the Dalle Palle were legally able to call themselves the descendants of Bartlomeo Colleoni.
Due to the extensive inter marriage between the various branches of the Martinengo noble families, most of the branches can trace a line back to Bartolomeo.
As for My family, it is not proven that we descend from him, but with our family name being Martinengo Delle Palle, I think there is a very good chance that we are. Which would be something to be very proud about, because Colleoni was a very extraordinary person with an amazing life story.

I have copies of both Venceslao Martinengo Dalle Palle's and Venceslao Martinengo Colleoni's writings, where they both make their case in this matter, if anybody here would like to read them.