Activation of an old noble family

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Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda SNMdeKW » mercoledì 7 settembre 2016, 22:23

Hello all !
I'm happy that I was allowed and accepted on this forum.

I have a question if it is possible:
How can I reactivate my family ?

I know a lot about my Dinasty,medals,honors,titles,ranks,but because of bolsheviks,because of what happened after 1940 in East Europe (where most of my family was located at that time),my family was almost erased.
Now,after decade's,i started to collect a lot of legal information's but still I don't know what to do to be recognized again.

Thank you for your time and reply.
If exist any questions,just ask ;)

P.S. I don't speak Italian :( just english and I don't type perfectly :(
Thank You again !
SNMdeKW
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda SNMdeKW » giovedì 8 settembre 2016, 9:47

What I know is that different family members has received:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soverei ... r_of_Malta
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Redeemer
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Saint_Anna
And others medals,orders etc
And the family was maked noble (I think rank was Earl/Count) in Bessarabia from 1910 on reign of Romanov Dinasty. Documents are in russian language.
SNMdeKW
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda Romegas » giovedì 8 settembre 2016, 16:08

Sorry, but the name of the family?
Sub hoc signo militamus
Sol per difesa io pungo
(Contrada Sovrana dell'Istrice)
Initium sapientiae timor Domini
(Sal. 111,10)
Socio A.I.O.C.
Socio I.A.G.I.
Romegas
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda SNMdeKW » giovedì 8 settembre 2016, 16:12

Hello,sorry for not mention.
Karavas , Kara-Wassille , Cara-Vasile , Caravasile.
They was first located in Macedonia-Greece and last information known is Cahul in old Bessarabia,actual Moldova Republic.
Sovereign Military Order of Malta was received by Kara-Wassille Dmitri Ivanovici (1798-1889) or Alexei Dimitrie de Kara-Wassille (1846-1915). I say one or other because the original information was found on internet,in russian and between the tho of them is a "son". One was the son of other. But using google translate,i haven't understand who is who and who received the Order :(
SNMdeKW
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda Pallante » sabato 10 settembre 2016, 23:40

Dear SNM,
I do not understand exactly what is your request; but these greek-balkan families are very interesting to me for their history.

The Caravasile family ( the name suggests one ancestor called Vassily the black?) gave also one Saint to the Costantinopolitan patriarchate: Ioan (killed by the Turks in 1821 with the patriarch). His son, Dumitru, built the city of Cahul and was member of the council that voted the unity of the Romanian principalities in 1859. His son
Alexei Cara-Vasile was elected at the Romanian Parliament till 1878, mayor of Cahul and member of the Russian Duma. See http://www.moldavie.fr/Centenaire-Kersn ... lture.html (French).

I have no idea how you can get a legal recognition of your nobility. this may depend on the country where you apply. But of course much may be done on the historical side, to keep the memory of such an important family.

Regards.
Pallante
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda SNMdeKW » domenica 11 settembre 2016, 7:37

Hello Pallante

Yes,in greek is "Vassily the Black";)

Activation or reactivation of family...I mean all the things that my family has lost after WW2, when Bolsheviks has trow my family in work camps in Karaganda (Camp Spark 99 I think).
1. To regain/receive all my family medals, honors, orders.
2. To regain/receive the noble titles.
3. To regain/receive my land (county's) back and declare them a country (County ruled by a Count/Earl - Monarchy) by Montevideo Convention.

P.S. thank you for the link but I don't believe to much in website's this days when is about "Moldova" in their name. Still exist a lot of communists in Moldova and they will denaturing the truth.
SNMdeKW
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda Pallante » domenica 11 settembre 2016, 18:51

Sorry, I'm not an expert in this field, I'm just interested in family history, but to the little I know:

1. To regain/receive all my family medals, honors, orders.
medals, honours and orders were personal decorations belonging to the individuals admitted to those honours. They were mainly not hereditary. You can collect all the information and build a family archive, but if the medals and decorations went lost, you cannot obtain them again, except you ask a goldsmith to make a copy.
2. To regain/receive the noble titles.
the title, if hereditary, belongs to the members of the family according to the rules of the context in which those titles were given or obtained (eg: male primogeniture, marriage policy...). If the place where you currently live recognises nobility titles, you may apply to institutions or associations that may study your case and recognise your title. In many countries titles are not legally/officially recognised (eg. currently in Italy), or they recognise only the national titles(eg. France). But you can create an association of noble families coming from Romania... I think that nowadays this is mainly a private legacy/business that may not be recognised by the State (but if you create a strong historical association of Romanian noble families it is also likely that the Romanian Republic recognises the goodness of it).
3. To regain/receive my land (county's) back and declare them a country (County ruled by a Count/Earl - Monarchy) by qMontevideo Convention.
according to international law there is no way to rule a country other than factually ruling it! You may have some traditional rights that are no more enforceable as the Law and the political system have changed. To regain these rights you have to be able to ENFORCE them again ( eg. Winning elections, conquering the country [knight.gif] , buying the land, convincing current politicians of your rights...). In the current situation it will be difficult to have even the reimbursement of what you lost. In the past, rulers used to gain and lose their fortunes and no one would reimburse anything to a defeated lord. There are anyway some cases of reimbursement or restitution (see Montenegro, Greek and Romanian royal families), but due to a combination of favorable inner political conditions and European institutional framework that may not apply to Moldova. You may found a political association in favour of regime change, as the son of the last Shah, and see if this may bring any fruit... .

Regards.
Pallante
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda SNMdeKW » domenica 11 settembre 2016, 19:30

Thank you for reply ;)
I think to regain only what I can be allowed, taking about honors, titles.
I know about Italy position but in same time is in a strange position because still has nobility but unrecognized.
France is a Republic, don't recognize nobility but has a low who protect at least 1% of this status and in same time can not refuse recognition of nobility because will be a big question mark about status of Monaco and Prince Albert.
In same way, are a lot of countries who recognize nobility because has a Monarchy Constitution who is recognized by United Nation for ruling a nation.

Last person who was maked noble in my family was my grate grandfather in Bessarabia in 1910 till formalities was finished in 1914 (I have the documents). His daughter (my grandmother) was born in France and her name include in her birth certificate name "de" Kara-Wassille". This name was a question mark and I was asked by Secretary of Consulate of France in Bucharest Romania,who was Kara-Wassille ? (I was at Consulate for requesting the Birth Certificate of my grandmother).

About buying my property.
Well I talk about a property (a County) that was owned by my family for almost 100 years.
Cahul County (to be explicit) was a Private Property from existence. Was sold,owned,buyed entire history till 1854 when my family has buy it from Bessarabia Governor Pavel Fiodorov and we was the last owners till 1940-1945 when Bolsheviks has invated Bessarabia and most of the males from family's was thrown in work camps in Karaganda, Kazakhstan (Spark 99 I think was the camp) being accused to be noble, to be against communists and doctrine etc.
Women's with kids has run all over the word. Some in France, others in Greece, others in Romania etc.

From 1945 till 1991 my land (with active property documents) was occupied and ruled by Bolsheviks and after by communists in a new country named Soviets Moldova Republic (or something like that).
In 1991, my grate grandfather was rehabilitated by USSR and Prosecutor Office of Soviet Moldova. If you know what is a rehabilitation is,then you know what I'm talking.

In 1991 or 1992, Soviet Moldova declared her Independence from USSR and maked the new country named Moldova Republic but still occupying my land illegally from soviet time making a false declaration of territory land at United Nation.
The new Constitution of new Moldova Republic was declared in 1994.

If we think about, from 1991 till 1994, by that rehabilitation degree, we was the owners of the Cahul County again but we don't haved how the enforce our power over land when in same period of time was constituted National Army of Moldova who was appointed to seized all the lands in new formed country.

From what I know, by Montevideo Convention, is illegal to declare a new country using military force and in same time the new formed Moldova Republic has violated the Carta of Human Rights over private property, they violated the rehabilitation law who was in 1991 and still is active this days, they lied United Nation declaring a County in their borders knowing already that is legit a private property.

From 1854 till 1945 was a lot of wars in area. Multiple times my family land was in the hands of Romania,Rusia,Bessarabia but has never lost the right to own and rule the property/county.
He was named in Peace Treaty from Paris who was maked for Bessarabia Principality after Ruso-Ottoman war.

If you have other question, ask ;)
SNMdeKW
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda SNMdeKW » domenica 11 settembre 2016, 19:48

To regain/receive the noble titles.
the title, if hereditary, belongs to the members of the family according to the rules of the context in which those titles were given or obtained (eg: male primogeniture, marriage policy...). If the place where you currently live recognises nobility titles, you may apply to institutions or associations that may study your case and recognise your title. In many countries titles are not legally/officially recognised (eg. currently in Italy), or they recognise only the national titles(eg. France). But you can create an association of noble families coming from Romania... I think that nowadays this is mainly a private legacy/business that may not be recognised by the State (but if you create a strong historical association of Romanian noble families it is also likely that the Romanian Republic recognises the goodness of it).

The situation is strange.
Romania and Moldova Republic recognize King Mihai I of Romania and his house but in same time they don't.
Romania think to make King House "public utility" and in this case to receive state recognition and money from state budget but in same time I don't think this "Mafia scheme" will expand to all nobles who are still alive and to be recognized (I don't talk about public utility).
Most of nobles or 99% of them has lost all their properties, life etc etc etc in the Bolsheviks and communists times. This new "Democrats" don't want to hear about nobles (legal) because they must to give them moral and material compensations for their lists after WW2. Is a real Mafia with expropriation,moral and material compensations etc to the people who can prove that they have lost their belongings in lands that was lost by Romania after WW2 (like Bessarabia and others).
In this case,i don't think a state authority will recognize me with open hands.

Well,the bad part is that I don't have money to open an association of nobility in Romania. And for that I need to spend time just to make an association when I can focus my time in my problem to resolve it.
SNMdeKW
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda Pallante » domenica 11 settembre 2016, 20:18

Dear SNM,

Last person who was maked noble in my family was my grate grandfather in Bessarabia in 1910 till formalities was finished in 1914 (I have the documents). His daughter (my grandmother) was born in France and her name include in her birth certificate name "de" Kara-Wassille".

if you have these documents, may you check if they mention the way of transmission of the title? Or if they mention the applicable law? I do not think female succession is automatically working. And you are a descendant through female line: This may give you some rights to inheritance of goods (hardly to the title!), but this (inheritance of goods) also is not automatic! Maybe your grand mother already received her part of inheritance.
Anyway you have to check the Civil Code of the time and see if females had right to inherit, to which extent and to which degree the law was recognising legal family relationship. Then you have to find out the list of all possible heirs, find out who was the last entitled to inherit and check if your family relation to him is considered legal for inheritance (in Italy it is only by the sixth degree).
This is your preliminary work. Once you have assessed that you may have some rights of inheritance, the tough work of convincing political/court authorities starts.
Pallante
 
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Re: Activation of an old noble family

Messaggioda SNMdeKW » domenica 11 settembre 2016, 21:12

I have the documents but the problem is that are in russian language :( I don't know russian.
What can I say is that in 1910-1914 Bessarabia was ruled by Imperial Russian (if I'm not wrong).
My grate grandfather haved 3 kids,all girls.
2 girls was maked with first wife. Last girl was maked with second wife.
My grandmother was from first marriage and the oldest from all 3. Her parents was: Alexei Dimitrie de Kara-Wareciesille and Marie Therese Honorine Brun (from France).

I have said about Order of Malta.
I think Alexei Dimitrie de Kara-Wassille has receive it because he was in France,he was a White Russian Lieutenant sent at war (have documents to prove it). Maybe being in France (a catholic country) he has receive it somehow because Kara-Wassille family history starts from Greece (an orthodox country). Maybe was a "Mlitary Order of Malta" or something bigger because someone from family (grate grandfather or grate grate grandfather of Alexei) was maked Saint by Orthodox Church of Greece.
Someone says that we are related with other Saint,Dimitrie who is the protector of Salonika.
SNMdeKW
 
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